To be fair, the US became the world’s imperial hegemon after World War II. What changed is the advancement of social media, making it far harder to hide the crimes of empire. Vietnam was the first real exposure to televised war in the west, and the media was key to the anti-war movement. The US then exerted tighter control on the media apparatus, but this is much harder to do with social media.
Even Iran figured out how to just shut off the internet when everyone was demanding too much freedom for women. It’s not hard to do with social media, it’s hard to do with a populace that is accustomed to freedom.
Cowbee, Iran shut off the internet because people were protesting for women’s rights. This was years before the Israeli/American bombing campaign. Stop simping for authoritarian regimes. You sound like an American liberal the way you apologize for their actions.
You’re dodging the subject. Israel has been fucking with Iran for decades, that’s not the question. The question is why are you okay with Iran shutting down the internet to stop a women’s rights movement?
I’m okay with Iran shutting down the internet to stop a Mossad-backed color revolution intended to pave the way for the modern war against it. Do you think between the protests and the bombing of Minab elementary school that Israel and the US suddenly decided to get involved, or do you realize that this was a part of the actual plan the entire time?
The people of Iran should be able to chart their own course, free from the interference of the genocidal US and Israeli attacks.
ran shut off the internet because people were protesting for women’s rights
Iran shut of internet because of organized attempts at insurrection using women’s rights as an excuse. UK/US want another puppet in place shitting on gold toilets selling out the country cheap.
He is literally a propagandist that never engages in good faith. I’m not sure if he works for republicans or actually believes his bullshit but he’s definitely doing work for Putin.
And by listing the three major US enemies (currently) in two comments, with reasoning provided by their very media apparatus, you’re the prime example on how the tighter control on media (and social media) actually affects the populace. Thanks for participating.
You declared I was “the prime example on how the tighter control on media (and social media) actually affects the populace” solely for the reason that I “list[ed] the three major US enemies”. This is akin to how Trump supporters declare every criticism of Trump as “TDS”, or how Israelis claim every criticism of their country is “anti-semitism”. You can’t shut down a conversation like that here, maybe on .ml, but not here, people are more curious, more prone to individual thought, more prone to asking questions.
Trump’s word isn’t gospel, his actions are too, like how he fought his own party to prevent sanctions being placed on Russia, or how they are the only country he hasn’t placed tariffs on.
No, I declared you a prime example, because you were immediately using Whataboutism hinged on these three main adversaries (and none other), which only exist as a narrative because the US government declared them as such and you combined these name drops with western propaganda talking points in an attempt, and as the sole reason to comment at all, to discredit a well formulated critique of the US … on a post about the US committing war crimes. It’s like a learned behaviour.
listen to what Trump is saying about Putin.
Trump’s word isn’t gospel, his actions are
It’s getting confusing.
Russia is not “the only country he hasn’t placed tariffs on”, as the US actually has placed tariffs on Russia, as well as heavy sanctions. But you know, the importance of tariffs vanishes, if you can just sanction a country out of the market and into compliance, anyway? There’s also almost no tariffs on the DPRK or Cuba, because they are heavily sanctioned already. Namely secondary sanctions (which are against international law), that disallow other countries to trade with the sanctioned countries.
how he fought his own party to prevent sanctions being placed on Russia
Maybe it’s me, but I find this to be theatre. But maybe you can write down your actual thinking on how the overall dynamics work here., you sound like you’re heavily on the Krasnov theory.
That’s not really true, though. The US has a far more sophisticated media apparatus, that has existed for longer. China’s censorship is open and well-understood by the population, the US’s is secret while pretending it doesn’t exist. Further, neither China nor Russia are “empires,” not for centuries in China’s case and about a century in Russia’s case.
That’s not really true, though. China and Russia have a far more sophisticated media censorship apparatus, and their polling indicates they have no idea the level of propaganda they are being faced with every day. Half of Americans hate their own country, and are free to post about it on the internet, and consume media that aligns with their view, without fear of being arrested like Ding Jiaxi.
And tell that to the refugees of China’s raping of its neighbours fish zones, or Russia’s brutal invasion of Ukraine.
“No you” is not a compelling argument. Why is it that you believe Russia and China to have a more sophisticated propaganda apparatus, despite the US’s propaganda apparatus existing for centuries longer, with far more money behind it? Further, the idea that speech is free in the US is horribly wrong. Left-wing media and organizing like the subpoena of BreakThrough News and the attacks by Marco Rubio on the DSA, PSL, and even individuals like Hasan Piker prove that what matters is that only capitalist speech is allowed, while workers are crushed.
Chinese censorship targets those that undermine their socialist system. This is openly understood, and thus subversive organizing is also targeted, just like in the US. The major difference is that the CPC is a worker-party, and is thoroughly subject to the will of the entire working class. This is why Chinese citizens have much greater approval for their own democracy than the US does:
And to drive the point home, the bottom 50% of China has been consistently prioritized, while elsewhere the poor are discarded and left behind:
Meaningless sloganeering is not an actual way to understand the world. If we flail about in vulgar “whataboutisms” rather than genuine comparistics, then we will fail to actually see what’s going on. We must, as the Chinese Marxists say, seek truth from facts. We must not presuppose a conclusion and justify it based on ideology.
Why is it you are aware “no you” isn’t a compelling argument, and then proceed to make a “no you” argument?
You make bold declarations like “the US’s propaganda apparatus existing for centuries longer, with far more money behind it”, with absolutely no evidence or sources to back up these claims.
China does not target people who undermine socialism. It targets people who undermine capitalism. People like Ding Jiaxi, who called on Xi Jinping and other top-level government officials to lead the way in dislosing their financial assets.
Trump supporters in Red leaning states also have extremely high approval ratings for their leader, this is evidence of the efficacy of propaganda, not democracy.
An unsourced image comparing China to America proves nothing to anyone, other than the fact that you are locked in a propaganda campaign to manufacture consent for a new cold war.
I agree that meaningless sloganeering is not an actual way to understand the world. So why do you do it? Do you accuse me of “whataboutisms” while engaging in them yourself in a Trump-style tactic to dismiss any such accusation as more “no you” arguments?
The Chinese are not Marxists, and they do not seek the truth, they bury it.
It’s good that you read about the subpoena of BreakThrough News and the attacks by Marco Rubio on the DSA, PSL, and even individuals like Hasan Piker.
I did not make a “no you” argument, I explicitly addressed your argument and changed it to one of comparistics. I referenced hard data and gave a materialist response, drawing on the immense improval of living conditions in China.
The fact that the US’s propaganda apparatus has existed for centuries longer can be understood by the simple fact that the modern Chinese and Russian states are less than a century old. Both saw immense changes in societal makeup and organization between the old states and the new. The US emerged as the world’s imperial hegemon in the aftermath of World War II, as I already explained earlier, while China was just forming its new society and attempting to overcome the problems of feudalism. The USSR, meanwhile, dissolved in 1991, resulting in the modern Russian Federation and intense economic devastation, devastation that resulted in the single greatest drop in life expectancy in history outside of wartime.
As for Ding Jiaxi, he was organizing directly against the socialist state of China, in a subversive manner. This is openly understood to be illegal in China, as it is in every state. China is a socialist country, not capitalist, so the process of developing socialism comes through reform, not subversion. China has been governed by Marxist-Leninists since 1949, and this has only strengthened under Xi Jinping. More schools for Marxism have been opened in China, and the CPC has over 100 million members.
You do not have an argument, you merely copy and paste what I said while changing keywords. This is ineffective propaganda on your part at best.
I don’t see how pointing out the instance I use disproves the points I raised. I think it’s fairly obvious that I’m a Marxist-Leninist, I don’t attempt to hide that. I suppose I could make an alt account and try to crypto-advocate for socialism, but what would be the point?
The internet is not a neutral space. A country having its own social media platforms instead of letting American companies harvest their citizens’ data is not truly censorship.
their polling indicates they have no idea the level of propaganda they are being faced with every day.
You’re being solipsistic. Not everything you disagree with based on personal whims is “propaganda.”
Only Russia will jail you for posting “I disagree with the war.”
Only Iran will jail you for posting “I think women should have more rights.”
You’re being solipsistic.
Nobody talks like this. Nobody in the real world says this. I know you’re capable of talking without using 5 dollar words to obscure logic and escape from an argument in a cloud of poor reasoning.
Not everything you disagree with based on personal whims is “propaganda.”
That’s right. But we’re not talking about whether or not Captain Picard is the best Star Trek captain. We’re not discussing disagreements on personal whims. We’re talking about whether or not an unelected state apparatus with the power in the hands of a handful of rich elites should have total control over everything you’re allowed to see and say. That’s propaganda. That’s what’s going on in Russia, and Iran, and China. And probably America soon, the way they’re headed with Trump.
I’m afraid you’re being maliciously obtuse. There is no need to criticize my pretty regular vocabulary. And the fact that you think the USA hasn’t historically been at the center of the imperialist propaganda machine fruther confirms the need to end our conversation.
To be fair, the US became the world’s imperial hegemon after World War II. What changed is the advancement of social media, making it far harder to hide the crimes of empire. Vietnam was the first real exposure to televised war in the west, and the media was key to the anti-war movement. The US then exerted tighter control on the media apparatus, but this is much harder to do with social media.
Even Iran figured out how to just shut off the internet when everyone was demanding too much freedom for women. It’s not hard to do with social media, it’s hard to do with a populace that is accustomed to freedom.
Iran shutting off the internet ultimately helped prevent Israeli penetration. Mossad had active elements stirring up unrest and terrorism in Iran.
Cowbee, Iran shut off the internet because people were protesting for women’s rights. This was years before the Israeli/American bombing campaign. Stop simping for authoritarian regimes. You sound like an American liberal the way you apologize for their actions.
Mossad openly admitted to being active in Iran:
If Mossad’s official Twitter account admitted this, how can you say that this wasn’t a critical factor?
You’re dodging the subject. Israel has been fucking with Iran for decades, that’s not the question. The question is why are you okay with Iran shutting down the internet to stop a women’s rights movement?
I’m okay with Iran shutting down the internet to stop a Mossad-backed color revolution intended to pave the way for the modern war against it. Do you think between the protests and the bombing of Minab elementary school that Israel and the US suddenly decided to get involved, or do you realize that this was a part of the actual plan the entire time?
The people of Iran should be able to chart their own course, free from the interference of the genocidal US and Israeli attacks.
deleted by creator
Iran shut of internet because of organized attempts at insurrection using women’s rights as an excuse. UK/US want another puppet in place shitting on gold toilets selling out the country cheap.
He is literally a propagandist that never engages in good faith. I’m not sure if he works for republicans or actually believes his bullshit but he’s definitely doing work for Putin.
I have always engaged in good faith. I don’t work for republicans or Putin, I spend time and money organizing as a communist.
🙄
Is there a reason you spread disinformation about me?
The majority of the fediverse knows exactly what you are cow.
And by listing the three major US enemies (currently) in two comments, with reasoning provided by their very media apparatus, you’re the prime example on how the tighter control on media (and social media) actually affects the populace. Thanks for participating.
I’m not American. Russia is no longer a US enemy, listen to what Trump is saying about Putin.
Since when is Trump’s word gospel? Also, who cares, if you’re US-American.
You declared I was “the prime example on how the tighter control on media (and social media) actually affects the populace” solely for the reason that I “list[ed] the three major US enemies”. This is akin to how Trump supporters declare every criticism of Trump as “TDS”, or how Israelis claim every criticism of their country is “anti-semitism”. You can’t shut down a conversation like that here, maybe on .ml, but not here, people are more curious, more prone to individual thought, more prone to asking questions.
Trump’s word isn’t gospel, his actions are too, like how he fought his own party to prevent sanctions being placed on Russia, or how they are the only country he hasn’t placed tariffs on.
No, I declared you a prime example, because you were immediately using Whataboutism hinged on these three main adversaries (and none other), which only exist as a narrative because the US government declared them as such and you combined these name drops with western propaganda talking points in an attempt, and as the sole reason to comment at all, to discredit a well formulated critique of the US … on a post about the US committing war crimes. It’s like a learned behaviour.
It’s getting confusing.
Russia is not “the only country he hasn’t placed tariffs on”, as the US actually has placed tariffs on Russia, as well as heavy sanctions. But you know, the importance of tariffs vanishes, if you can just sanction a country out of the market and into compliance, anyway? There’s also almost no tariffs on the DPRK or Cuba, because they are heavily sanctioned already. Namely secondary sanctions (which are against international law), that disallow other countries to trade with the sanctioned countries.
Maybe it’s me, but I find this to be theatre. But maybe you can write down your actual thinking on how the overall dynamics work here., you sound like you’re heavily on the Krasnov theory.
Source Tariffs
Source Sanctions
China and Russia figured out how to do it with social media. Most of their people don’t even know of their empire’s crimes.
That’s not really true, though. The US has a far more sophisticated media apparatus, that has existed for longer. China’s censorship is open and well-understood by the population, the US’s is secret while pretending it doesn’t exist. Further, neither China nor Russia are “empires,” not for centuries in China’s case and about a century in Russia’s case.
That’s not really true, though. China and Russia have a far more sophisticated media censorship apparatus, and their polling indicates they have no idea the level of propaganda they are being faced with every day. Half of Americans hate their own country, and are free to post about it on the internet, and consume media that aligns with their view, without fear of being arrested like Ding Jiaxi.
And tell that to the refugees of China’s raping of its neighbours fish zones, or Russia’s brutal invasion of Ukraine.
“No you” is not a compelling argument. Why is it that you believe Russia and China to have a more sophisticated propaganda apparatus, despite the US’s propaganda apparatus existing for centuries longer, with far more money behind it? Further, the idea that speech is free in the US is horribly wrong. Left-wing media and organizing like the subpoena of BreakThrough News and the attacks by Marco Rubio on the DSA, PSL, and even individuals like Hasan Piker prove that what matters is that only capitalist speech is allowed, while workers are crushed.
Chinese censorship targets those that undermine their socialist system. This is openly understood, and thus subversive organizing is also targeted, just like in the US. The major difference is that the CPC is a worker-party, and is thoroughly subject to the will of the entire working class. This is why Chinese citizens have much greater approval for their own democracy than the US does:
And to drive the point home, the bottom 50% of China has been consistently prioritized, while elsewhere the poor are discarded and left behind:
Meaningless sloganeering is not an actual way to understand the world. If we flail about in vulgar “whataboutisms” rather than genuine comparistics, then we will fail to actually see what’s going on. We must, as the Chinese Marxists say, seek truth from facts. We must not presuppose a conclusion and justify it based on ideology.
Why is it you are aware “no you” isn’t a compelling argument, and then proceed to make a “no you” argument?
You make bold declarations like “the US’s propaganda apparatus existing for centuries longer, with far more money behind it”, with absolutely no evidence or sources to back up these claims.
China does not target people who undermine socialism. It targets people who undermine capitalism. People like Ding Jiaxi, who called on Xi Jinping and other top-level government officials to lead the way in dislosing their financial assets.
Trump supporters in Red leaning states also have extremely high approval ratings for their leader, this is evidence of the efficacy of propaganda, not democracy.
An unsourced image comparing China to America proves nothing to anyone, other than the fact that you are locked in a propaganda campaign to manufacture consent for a new cold war.
I agree that meaningless sloganeering is not an actual way to understand the world. So why do you do it? Do you accuse me of “whataboutisms” while engaging in them yourself in a Trump-style tactic to dismiss any such accusation as more “no you” arguments?
The Chinese are not Marxists, and they do not seek the truth, they bury it.
It’s good that you read about the subpoena of BreakThrough News and the attacks by Marco Rubio on the DSA, PSL, and even individuals like Hasan Piker.
Read up on Ding Jiaxi too.
I did not make a “no you” argument, I explicitly addressed your argument and changed it to one of comparistics. I referenced hard data and gave a materialist response, drawing on the immense improval of living conditions in China.
The fact that the US’s propaganda apparatus has existed for centuries longer can be understood by the simple fact that the modern Chinese and Russian states are less than a century old. Both saw immense changes in societal makeup and organization between the old states and the new. The US emerged as the world’s imperial hegemon in the aftermath of World War II, as I already explained earlier, while China was just forming its new society and attempting to overcome the problems of feudalism. The USSR, meanwhile, dissolved in 1991, resulting in the modern Russian Federation and intense economic devastation, devastation that resulted in the single greatest drop in life expectancy in history outside of wartime.
As for Ding Jiaxi, he was organizing directly against the socialist state of China, in a subversive manner. This is openly understood to be illegal in China, as it is in every state. China is a socialist country, not capitalist, so the process of developing socialism comes through reform, not subversion. China has been governed by Marxist-Leninists since 1949, and this has only strengthened under Xi Jinping. More schools for Marxism have been opened in China, and the CPC has over 100 million members.
You do not have an argument, you merely copy and paste what I said while changing keywords. This is ineffective propaganda on your part at best.
You’re talking to a .ml user.
I don’t see how pointing out the instance I use disproves the points I raised. I think it’s fairly obvious that I’m a Marxist-Leninist, I don’t attempt to hide that. I suppose I could make an alt account and try to crypto-advocate for socialism, but what would be the point?
The internet is not a neutral space. A country having its own social media platforms instead of letting American companies harvest their citizens’ data is not truly censorship.
You’re being solipsistic. Not everything you disagree with based on personal whims is “propaganda.”
Lots of countries have their own social media platforms. Only China will jail you for posting questions like “how much do our leaders make?”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ding_Jiaxi
Only Russia will jail you for posting “I disagree with the war.”
Only Iran will jail you for posting “I think women should have more rights.”
Nobody talks like this. Nobody in the real world says this. I know you’re capable of talking without using 5 dollar words to obscure logic and escape from an argument in a cloud of poor reasoning.
That’s right. But we’re not talking about whether or not Captain Picard is the best Star Trek captain. We’re not discussing disagreements on personal whims. We’re talking about whether or not an unelected state apparatus with the power in the hands of a handful of rich elites should have total control over everything you’re allowed to see and say. That’s propaganda. That’s what’s going on in Russia, and Iran, and China. And probably America soon, the way they’re headed with Trump.
I’m afraid you’re being maliciously obtuse. There is no need to criticize my pretty regular vocabulary. And the fact that you think the USA hasn’t historically been at the center of the imperialist propaganda machine fruther confirms the need to end our conversation.
America soon? America was always controlled by the elite, since 250 years.