I find this morally reprehensible. I have always spoken against defederazation when others have mentioned it. This is too much. Apologies if this upsets anyone.
Palestinians are human beings and have a right to life.
Edit: I have been persuaded by some thoughtful replies. I will block them from my view. I no longer support making the decision for others. Thanks all.
It is possible to be pro-Palestinian and anti-Hamas at the same time.
Similarly, it is possible to be pro-Jewish and anti-Israel at the same time.
They key is to be in favour of, and supporting, the innocent civilians that are NOT wielding hate and bigotry, and in direct and vociferous opposition to the power structures on BOTH sides that have looked true evil in the eye and said, “hold my beer and watch this”.
I am as anti-Hamas as I am anti-Israel. Both power/political structures are among the most reprehensibly evil orgs on the planet at this time.
I stand with the innocent civilians; with THE PEOPLE.
I’m not pro-Hamas but I dislike Israel more because Hamas are fighting their captors. I can understand that. I believe if Palestine was granted statehood and equal rights, Hamas would cease operating. If it continued to operate, I would be anti-Hamas as much as I am anti-Israel. The power imbalance makes treating them with equal disdain irrational.
I believe if Palestine was granted statehood and equal rights, Hamas would cease operating.
Do you have evidence to support that hypothesis?
No. That’s why it’s a belief. That’s also why I stated that if it turned out to be wrong, I would consider Hamas just as bad as Israel.
Fair enough. I just don’t know of a case where a violent rebel group took over a government/land and then immediately dissolved.
What I meant to ask was if there was any historical evidence of a violent rebel group actually giving up power when they win.
But you did respond to what I literally asked with evidence, so hard to argue with that.
This is not a violent rebel group, they are the government defending their home from foreign invaders. But the Vietcong and ANC are both no longer in power if you mean that.
Usually after violent revolution comes a few years of unrest. Stability does not come directly. But first the colonizers must be removed else that period will never be reached.
Same - and it’s weird to see so many leftists immediately jump to unconditional support for Hamas, who are literally a reactionary, religious fundamentalist force and who have done horrible things towards Palestinian people.
Armed resistance to Israel does not negate its evils or its reactionary internal role.
If you oppose armed resistance against genocide you are pro genocide. It is that simple
If you are anti Hamas you are anti Palestinian. Because Hamas are the ones fighting against the occupation and genocide. Else you can pretend to be pro Palestinian by supporting the PA which is nothing more than an extension of Israel oppressing Palestinians.
But besides that, Feddit is straight up banning calls for Zionism to be abolished which is full undeniable pro-Zionism
Hamas =/= Palestine, Like Zionist facists =/= Israel or represent any Jewish person with a conscience.
They have killed innocent people just like the IDF has.
Fuck the zioNazis and fuck the spineless cowards that run feddit.com. Death to capitalism, death to America, death to Israel, free Palestine, and ALL power to ALL the people.
And frankly, I don’t think feddit.org deserve to be a part of the SDF community, or polite society in general. ZioNazis are exactly that, Nazis with a different coat of paint, and should be treated as such.
BUT I still disagree with SDF specifically defederating instance-wide from Feddit or literally any instance. IMO the only reason I would support SDF defederating an instance is if simply federating with the instance is technically dangerous for out instance.
Because we don’t deserve to be punished for feddit.org’s crimes by throwing away our ability to communicate with, agitate, or monitor Feddit’s users and mod team. I totally sympathize with other instances that specifically and openly curate what their users can and can’t see nuking their federation if that is what their users want. Totally reasonable. But I suspect that a lot of us are here precisely because we don’t defederate from anyone, even if they suck or deserve worse. A lot of us are on this instance deliberately because we want to curate our own feeds.
And personally, I reject the premise that communicating with a person means that I respect or endorse them in any capacity. For example, I’ve replied to various neoliberals all over the Fediverse because they said something horrible or uninformed that needs to be addressed, at least for the sake of everyone else watching. I don’t endorse or respect the neoliberal worldview, but unfortunately in the US and a lot of places we’ve ruined, neoliberalism is the “default” ideology, so that’s where discussions from any other position have to start from: rejecting neoliberalism and disproving its lies.
And as alluded to above, this is my position about neo-nazis, PDF files, cops, and ${insert any morally reprehensible group here} with respect to this instance as well.
So no, I don’t support us site-wide defederating from Feddit, just as I wouldn’t support site-wide defederating any instance unless federation somehow posed a technical existential threat to this instance. Not that they haven’t earned it, because they’ve earned way the fuck worse, but we don’t deserve to lose our ability to speak to them or monitor their monsters.
Well-argued. I’ll give this some thought.
I’m in favor. Feddit has proven before this incident to be extremely Zionistic and Islamophobic as well.
As excessive as defederating an entire instance is, think about how insane banning anti-zionist speech across an entire instance is.
It’s not like its one gardening sublemmy or the diary of Anne frank guy, its an entire instance banning a specific form of antifascism. That’s unhinged and their justification is flimsy as hell.
If you wanna stay on that instance spam them with pictures of children in Gaza 24/7 until they ban you or reverse course on this decision.
It’s plainly an attempt at palestinian erasure. They decided to ban anti zionism the same week Israel announced they would be exporting 1 million Palestinians to Libya and occupying Gaza permanently. It’s not an accident, or for their safety, or German law, its genocide and feddit apparently wants to mandate it big brother style where you cant talk about eastasia.
It’s insane. Power tripping mods to a new stratosphere. Nobody should just be okay with this. Speaking for palestine without fear of being banned is one of the main reasons a lot of us left reddit in the first place. Don’t bring that shit here!
I don’t want to defederate anything. What feddit is doing sounds super Orwellian and shitty, but so is .ml sometimes, and I still do stuff which seems positive over there. The thing that lead me to SDF in the first place was the low blocked/blocked by.
Agreed. I periodically check to confirm that SDF is not blocking other instances and feel pride at the free thought. That’s part of why I changed my mind and amended the post. This is a topic that matters more to me than a lot of other reasons people on other instances have called for defedding. But rational arguments in the comments pulled me back. Thanks all.
Yeah I’m sold. The more I looked into this instance the more horrified I’ve become. Straight up proud to be fascists they are.
As a Jew, fuck Zionism, It’s a stain on Judaism and Israel itself. Guess fuck feddit.org too.
The link appears broken, so I don’t know the specifics here, but defederation really needs to be a last resort as it kinda halts any chance of the conversation going the other way too. It helps create and support the extremified echo chambers that actively cause so many of our societal problems.
If the instance is particularly problematic or exclusively causes harm, then it might be appropriate to nuke em. But it also effectively tells the entirety of Lemmy that this is not a conversation worth having, and that it is wrong (at least socially) to ever interact with these people. And, it tells the folks being defederated that whatever they are saying must be valid because it gets an extreme reaction. People are exceedingly unlikely to admit wrongdoing and change their behavior when action is taken against their community of like-minded buddies (echo chamber), they double down and become even more polarized.
I know you mentioned speaking against defederation before, and I obviously don’t fully understand the details here, but I feel like it bears repeating that defederation has to go beyond the moral opinions of any individual if we want to stave off circling the drain of overreactive garbage that places like Reddit or Twitter became.
I only would agree with defederating if it’s proven that they are blocking anti-genocide content on other servers from being visible to their users.
In general I believe that maintaining lines of communication with those who otherwise believe in reprehensible ideologies is best, both in order to better understand such backwards ideologies, and also to provide a lifeline back to consensus reality for people who’ve been swept up by them.
I also believe that in the majority of cases, users should wield the power to instance-block for themselves. Or at least, servers where this is the case are the ones I prefer to participate on.
However, if it becomes clear that feddit.org admins are censoring content external to their instance due to their support of Zionism, then my first objection becomes irrelevant, and the second would be questionable, given the efforts of admins to put external fedi content thru a pro-genocide filter. At that point, defederation would be both warranted and wise.
I don’t subscribe to any communities on that instance. If you defederate, I probably won’t notice. If we can do anything that’ll even make marginally better the lives of those who have gone through so much, I support what good we can do.
some of the politics communities are starting to get there.
Yeah let’s fight censorship with more censorship!! Total isolation!
If you isolate the users of feddit then you won’t help them on having different views.
