Inexpensive fiber-optic drones are challenging Israel’s high-tech defenses, shifting the military balance in the Middle East.
A recent video showing an explosive-laden drone striking an Israeli Iron Dome battery couldn’t have been more symbolic: Israel’s famous air-defense system, which cost billions of euros, looked powerless against a small aircraft that cost a few hundred euros.
While the video’s authenticity has not yet been verified, experts believe it is genuine.
The footage was published about a week ago by Hezbollah, a Lebanon-based pro-Iranian militia, which Germany, the US and several Sunni Arab states have classified as a terrorist organization.
The drone strike, if genuine, would mark propaganda victory for Hezbollah and reveal a significant vulnerability in Israel’s military capabilities.
There is only one guarantee for Israeli security and that’s peace, deradicalization/dezionization (in the Matzpen sense, not in the ridiculous Yemelyanov sense), reparations, truth and reconciliation.
It seems that Iron Dome,like the Patriot, are desgned for the last war, not the current war. Asymmetric deployment of volumes of small&cheap units will overload these systems, or at least cost your opponent too much.
Even aganst peer weapons thay are onlyildly successful. In Ukraine the patriots have intercepted Kinzals,bit will never be able, nor cost effective against Oreshniks (as the split too early)
There is one very cost-effective way to combat cheap drones. Laser systems being developed and deployed now are the logical counter to cheap drone swarms. Those systems have per-shot costs far below even the cheapest of mass produced drones.
DEW weapons are always ‘just about to be deployed’ to change the situation.
It’s never as simple as generating a directed pulse (regardless of the wavelength) if you don’t acquire the target at range, and, environmental conditions are compatible with your weapon system.
I think it’ll get there, but would discourage anyone from believing it’s around the corner until we see shaheeds melting in the video feeds.
Doesn’t a reflective paint job counter your laser though?
No.
I mean, no shit.
The hubris in thinking that your limited-number missiles can’t be overwhelmed by sheer numbers ffs.
You mean America’s Iron Dome.
trump’s first thought…“They shoulda went widda gold dome”.
I’ve been wondering about this for a while, but what does it cost to maintain the iron dome when your batteries are depleted and the missiles are on backorder? It’s not like literally anyone else is fielding this equipment, so what happens when the only customer suddenly needs a tall order every week?
Under normal economic conditions, a tamir missile costs about $80k, and a shahed drone costs about $30k (and dropping). These are not normal conditions, and I expect that Israel is going to have spotty coverage in the coming years.
The worst part is that I’m sure Netanyahu and his ilk have priced all this in and agreed that the casualties and long-term dependence on foreign funding and ordnance is a fair trade for the additional territory. I really hope the Israeli people disagree.
I think that’s the point when they take it to the ‘negotiating table’ and try to keep what they’ve taken.
Having said that Israel has a large multilayered antiair defense that isn’t just iron dome. They have SPYDER, helos with the APKWS, and it’s own CIWS systems, plus they are rushing SMASH Hopper (AI driven improvised gun mount). Which isn’t to say your point is wrong, they will run out.
Also these last several years has turn people and their political leaders off Israel, which I mention as it just compounds the economics of this. Israel needs a functioning economy and foreign aid to sustain it, but has been turning off it’s partners. Although yes, the US seems to be an exception in this, mostly from a leader stand point.
They’re certainly making an impressive go of it, but I don’t see anything in their arsenal that’s going to survive sustained attacks.
SPYDER is so comically expensive that resisting long range drones will bankrupt the country, and automated turrets, while much better from a price per kill perspective, simply don’t have the range of other solutions (hundreds of meters at best rather than 40km of SPYDER or 5km of iron dome).
A better solution for the drones in the OP might be the new Rheinmetall platforms with airburst ammunition, but I’m not sure Israel can procure those in the numbers necessary to cover their defenses or infrastructure.
Rheinmetall platforms with airburst ammunition
There’s a reason you might not want to be firing shrapnel explosives over the heads of your own citizens.
But hey, it’s Israel. Maybe they don’t give a shit.
Thats what America a is there for
what does it cost to maintain the iron dome when your batteries are depleted and the missiles are on backorder?
Iron Dome is specifically for short range rockets and mortars. David’s Sling is intended to defend against ballistic missiles like those used by Iran. The Arrow System is intended to counter ICBMs as part of a constellation of US based anti-ballistic systems. I’m not sure that last one has been used in more than test shots
to the surprise of no one
very old news
The Iron Dome isn’t a physical barrier that can’t be passed, missiles have flown through it before.
“Drones” in context of modern battlefield are fancy guided missiles.
It’s a nothingburger
The key tonthe article isnt that it got through, ita that the thing that got through is cheap and mass producable. The modern drone battlefield has changed the landscape of war.
they’re taking a page from ukraine on asymmetric warfare and just following the playbook russia and ukraine have been escalating with drone warfare. and iran can get fiber optic from china just like russia.
this is something people aren’t understanding, the disparity in costs - sure western customers can shoot patriots at incoming, but if it’s a $12k shaheed the cost disparity is nosebleed, but you can’t NOT shoot at incoming because the costs of targets on the ground is also nosebleed expensive.
Fuck, iran bagged an E3 sentry awacs on the ground! Millions of dollars of STRATEGICALLY valuable asset, nuked on a fucking tarmac, because some dumbfuck decided to follow Israel into this shitshow.
I fucking hate the term “nothingburger”. Just lazy, dismissive bullshit. If you can’t see the significance of this, that’s on you.
How arrogant the Israeli leadership was to think it couldn’t happen to them when it’s been happening on the Ukrainian battlefield for a few years now. With Iranian-made drones no less.
Seriously, given how interconnected all these conflicts are, I’m convinced we are in WWIII,
No one said it has to have more deaths than the last one to be considered a world war
I’m convinced we are in WWIII,
the preamble perhaps. the conflict that sets the stage.
fml, the idea that putin/bibi/trump ally so closely in their desire to destroy their own countries, and xi is like: let’s make more terawatts of solar power and help cuba - the world is stranger and darker every day.
ebola may finally hit globally, thanks to stupid cuts at cdc/who/usaid
and then there’s taiwan… just sitting there, all tempting, and the US having expended tremendous amounts of our arsenal for the iranian folly… gee whiz…
I agree, it has yet to devolve into a full scale world war, but I wouldn’t be surprised if China makes a move on Taiwan by 2030.
I’d be amazed if they wait that long. It would give us a chance to rebuild stockpiles.
I don’t think Taipei is at risk tomorrow, but holy hell this is gonna be a fraught year…
China will conquer Taiwan from within, same as they vanquished America from the #1 world slot.
Propaganda, won’t even have to fire a shot.
China will conquer Taiwan from within
if they could ever do that, don’t you think they’d have done it already?
do you have any evidence to support the idea that taiwanese attitudes have changed?
Dude you’re totally right. If someone hasn’t done something yet, then they’re never ever going to do that.
Insightful.
it’s a genuine inquiry about your response - China has long desired to recapture their ‘lost’ island (never was theirs but set that aside) and continues to run all kinds of pressure campaigns from political interference in Taiwanese government to artillery attacks on the outlying islands to pressuring the vast majority of the world to ignore their existence.
Taiwan has shown incredible resilience over decades and decades.
Now, if Trump robs them of the support and legitimacy, throws them to the wolves, all bets are off. Perhaps Taipei sees the writing on the wall - but man, I don’t see that going well either. Hong Kong illustrated - there is no separate peace, you get china, you get chinese rule and it’s not light handed.
It’s a shit sandwich, and the US has made it all worse with the iran bullshit draining our magazines, fleet deployments, and most importantly, resolve to stand up for our allies.
I’m convinced we are in WWIII
I’ve heard people speculate that it’s more like WW5 or 6, depending on how you want to count global conflicts between superpowers.
But from the US perspective, we’re a far cry from the kind of Total War we engaged in during the 40s.
This war only feels existential if you’re on the receiving end.
So who exactly is the allied vs axis
It’s Axis vs Axis this time.
Hell, it happened to Armenia, with Israeli-made drones.
The footage was published about a week ago by Hezbollah, a Lebanon-based pro-Iranian militia, which Germany, the US and several Sunni Arab states have classified as a terrorist organization.
And where’s the parenthetical comma for Israel?
Israel, the arpartheid Jewish ethnostate, has been globally condemned for its violation of human rights and massive bombings with civilian casualties, is currently invading Lebannon in an effort to expand its territory.
The difference is Hezbollah isn’t a country…
If the conflict was a couple rational countries, then making your distinction makes sense. But Iran and America’s governments are just as bad as Israel’s.
If you give a parenthetical for Israel you have to do it for America and Iran.
Hezbollah is the odd one out, because they don’t have soverign soil to be attacked, a pretty important difference
If your goal is informing your readers, the fact that Israel is invading Lebannon is easily as important as a comically detailed explanation of how terroristy Hezbollah is.
If your goal is sanctioning violence done by state actors–a common feature of corporate media–you´d do what they did here.
the fact that Israel is invading Lebannon
Is because Hezbollah is based there…
I’m defending Israel, this is a (not even rare) situation where every government (and non state militant organization) is a piece of shit their citizens would be better off without.
That shouldn’t be hard to understand, but there’s a weird amount of pro-Iran accounts the last couple months, and they just won’t understand it
Equating a settler colonialist fascist state with a resistance group born out of resisting that ethnic cleansing is actually insane
I´m talking about the difference between journalism and propaganda; you don´t think it’s a little weird to come away from an article like this knowing Hezabollah is a terrorist organization according to Germany, the US, and several Sunni Arab states, but not that their country is currently being invaded with tanks?
but not that their country
Non state organizations do not have their own country’s…
Hezbollah is based in Lebanon and Lebanon is being invaded, that is not the same as Hezbollah is being invaded.
Like, you’re mad at an explanation in the article but you obviously need the explanation…
Missing my point entirely. Good day.
It would be fair to mention that Israel is led by a wanted war criminal, if you are going to use language to demonise and delegitimise one side the other side should be treated in a balanced manner.
The fact that the war Israel is currently being led by a war criminal is important because it makes the reader question whether the decision to invade Lebanon is just as it is being done by a known and wanted war criminal.
It would be fair to mention that Israel is led by a wanted war criminal
So is America and Iran…
It’s not any different, if anything you should be arguing everyone involved is terrible.
Why does Hezbollah exist again? What force drove the Shi’a of southern Lebanon to band together and create Hezbollah?
The answer to that question proves the lie of your statements.
Is because Hezbollah is based there…
I’m defending Israel,
this is a (not even rare) situation where every government (and non state militant organization) is a piece of shit their citizens would be better off without.That shouldn’t be hard to understand,
but there’s a weird amount of pro-Iran accounts the last couple months, and they just won’t understand itJust in case no one else noticed it.
Didnt lebanon elect hazbalah though?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Lebanese_general_election
Tldr:
They have 15 seats when 65 is needed for a majority.
Is it weird that a political party is openly aligned with a militant non state organization?
Yep.
But it still doesn’t mean Hezbollah is being invaded, or that they’re Lebanon’s government.
Lebanon is being invaded, and a large amount of them never signed up for this shit.
Right, none of them did, that is why Israel is engaging in war crimes.
none of them did,
I legitimately don’t know what you’re referring to…
that is why Israel is engaging in war crimes
They were doing war crimes before they attacked Lebanon
It feels like you understand “Israel bad” but none of the actual facts or details. That’s very dangerous because billionaires are gonna point you
You need to understand more than “Israel bad” that’s not enough.
I did see footage of a drone attacking an Iron Dome site. Looked legit for what it’s worth. Literally flew right up to it. Unfortunately no footage of the aftermath from what I saw. Must have been quite the explosion though. Anyway, this is hopeful news. Let’s hope they keep this up and force Israel to back the fuck off.
Literally flew right up to it
Because you don’t see the 99.99% that were stopped at the defenses, that’s why a “swarm attack” would be so devastating.
It’s basically the attack scene from Zion in The Matrix. A steady flow of (relatively) inexpensive attack drones. Most will fail, for a very very long time nothing gets thru. But eventually one slips thru or defenses need to reload, but one slips thru and hits something.
If it hits something important, it’s now easier for every single one to get thru.
This was likely just proof of concept.
Send a wave out, aim at something random, and don’t stop till one gets thru. That is invaluable Intel for when/where to aim a swarm attack. They don’t need to breach everywhere, just one small section bearing insurmountable odds.
It would turn Iran into a super power on the world stage
Let’s hope they keep this up and force Israel to back the fuck off.
I don’t see the same connection here that you do. A failure of Israel’s defensive weapons would require them to go on the offensive. The status quo from before the October 7 attacks was tolerable to Israel because they could shoot down incoming threats but if they no longer can, they must neutralize the ability of their enemies to launch those threats.
I don’t know why you would assume that they would go further on the offensive.
All studies, publications, and reports show that if Israel didn’t have protection from retaliation, that they would be opposed to offensive operations if they experienced even a fraction of the horrors that they commit on others.
https://jewishcurrents.org/iron-dome-is-not-a-defensive-system
https://www.amacad.org/publication/daedalus/new-technologies-strategic-stability
Israel always wanted to be in perpetual conflict to continue it’s expansion. Conflict means the need to have superior firepower and defensive capabilities which help continue perpetrating it’s genocide unabated - it’s what Bibi pushed for these many decades.
https://www.972mag.com/netanyahu-hamas-october-7-adam-raz/
But if you take away the superior defensive capabilities and the risk of continued aggression (which is why there was opposition to funding the Iron Dome in the US) then Israel would think twice about it’s expansionist policies.
A failure of Israel’s defensive weapons would require them to go on the offensive.
Yes, but it will also require them to use alternative forces on defence, and it will also induce many Israelis to leave. This will create financial and manpower shortages. This might induce even more depraved behaviour in the short term, but I guess that’s a risk Iran & Co. are willing to take to ensure long-term peace.
It’s a new kind of war when one of your best defences is a jar of pickles.
