Trump lies.

Yup. When have established powers ever liked a revolutionary government? We don’t have to like the type of revolution Iran underwent to acknowledge that it was a radical revolutionary government in the literal sense of the term. No country on Earth has a form of government like Iran’s. It’s pretty unique. Any time a decent sized country tries is taken over by revolutionaries who attempt a radically new form of government, they receive immense opposition from the old powers. All of Europe declared war on France for chopping the head off their king. Every western government embargoed the people Haiti for daring to violently overthrow their slavers. An expeditionary army of numerous capitalist powers invaded the nascent Soviet Union to try and shut it down. And Iran has been under massive sanctions since they dared to throw their western-backed dictator out by force.

Established powers always try to clamp down on any kind of revolutionary government. It’s not that they fear the government itself; they fear the ideas that government represents. Iran needed to be punished. It needed to be embargoed into poverty. They couldn’t just let Iran try out its new form of government and let them sort themselves out. Because if Iran can overthrow a western-backed puppet and seize control over their own natural resources? Well that’s an idea that could spread far and wide.

Dude on CNN talking about how “now we are looking for Iran to come to the table for diplomacy”.

I just can’t understand how someone can have such low self-awareness. We just seem to have pulled off an attack on Iran that likely dwarfs the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor that pulled us into WW2. The idea that anyone would be remotely interested in peace talks after such an attack is just flabbergasting.

Fuck. The Mossad got their hands on a Death Note.

Israel doesn’t seem to be using its nuclear arsenal as a deterrent for invasion.

So it’s just a coincidence that no neighboring country has threatened them with outright military invasion since they got nukes?

And when has Iran ever threatened to use a bomb against Israel? They deny they’re even trying to get a bomb. Do their politicians like to say, “death to Israel?” Sure, but that’s just part of their discourse. The Iranians use “death to” as a synonym for “down with.” They say the same thing during political campaigns against opposing political candidates.

An Iranian bomb would stabilize the situation because the same pattern has occurred in numerous other conflicts. Yes, nukes don’t prevent conventional wars, but they do prevent total war between nuclear powers. Russia would have never attempted its invasion of Ukraine if Ukraine still had their nukes. India and Pakistan’s arsenals are what kept the recent conflict between them from spiraling further than it did.

You can speculate that nukes wouldn’t prevent further expansion of Israel, but that’s ahistorical analysis. Having an opponent that is just as well armed as you are makes you act more carefully. The Soviets didn’t just keep expanding across Europe, precisely because the US had the bomb to hold them in check. Israel has been able to act with such impunity because ultimately none of its neighbors can stand up to it. It’s only when some of Israel’s neighbors actually have nukes, and they have to address their neighbors as equals, that peace is actually possible. As long as one side holds complete military dominance, real peace isn’t possible.

We should welcome an Iranian bomb. Honestly, it’s what the Middle East really needs to bring it to stability.

The biggest destabilizing force in the Middle East is Israel. They’re a destabilizing force because they’re an expansionist nuclear-armed power with no hard borders. Their borders aren’t actually fixed; they’re in a decades-long process to slowly expand them. For those who forget, Israel’s MO is to:

1. Destabilize border regions of neighboring countries and foster the creation of militant groups within them.
2. Use those destabilized regions as justification for military occupation of the territory of neighboring countries.
3. Announce the creation of border “buffer zones.”
4. Allow their civilians to move into what is supposed to be a DMZ-like buffer zone.
5. Again have civilians in the line of fire of militants, demanding further border expansion.

Israel has been expanding like this for decades, and there’s no end in site. Their immediate neighbors are all to weak and destabilized to resist this process of slow Israeli lebensraum. The people in the Middle East are rightly afraid that they’ll be next under the Israeli boot, and they’ll find themselves reduced to the plight of the Gazans.

Israel is out of control. It’s an expansionist military power hellbent on gobbling up its neighbors. The reason they’re able to get away with this is because they have nuclear weapons. No Arab nation can invade them without the threat of being nuked in return. Israel uses its nuclear arsenal to conquer its neighbors.

Another nuclear power is desperately needed in the region to hold them in check. A nuclear Iran would serve this role well. They wouldn’t be able to wipe Israel off the map, as that would result in them getting nuked in return. What a nuclear-armed Iran can do is to finally put a check on Israel’s endless military expansion. We need powers that can stand up to the Israelis as equals and say, “no. Your borders are fucking big enough. You’re not taking one more square meter of land.”

Eh, it’s the least populace US state. Plus, who doesn’t like mountains?

a trans state would be dope.

Can we just kick everyone out of Wyoming and make Wyoming the trans state?

Nah this is like if you are the parent of an adult child. They have a rough time. They get burned by a series of landlords who screw them over, take advantage of them, and seriously harm their well being. For whatever reason, they decide that instead of renting, their best option is to go squat in their childhood home. It was sold years ago and currently occupied, but they decided they’re just going to force their way in at gunpoint, take over part of the house, and slowly take over more and more of it. You think this is a great idea, and you gladly provide them with weapons and ammo so they can occupy their childhood home.

Only a Nazi conflates anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.

Those on the right, being Nazis, use the Hitlerian definition of anti-Semitism. In this Hitlerian definition, Jews can never actually be full citizens of any other nation besides Israel. Regardless of their personal loyalty or belief, any Jew in the US or Europe is suspect, only a partial citizen, a foreigner at their very core. This is Hitlerian, as it is the very way the historical Nazis viewed Jewish identity.

For modern Nazis, being a Jew and being Israeli are interchangeable. A criticism of the Israeli government is an attack on Jewish people in general. Nazis like the modern Republican Party believe that Jews can never be real Americans, and that they will always have some connection and loyalty to the Israeli state. This is the very logic that justified the Japanese internment camps. If you think every Jewish person must be loyal to Israel, you are literally a Nazi.

I’m trans. I voted for Kamala, but I have zero hate on anyone who didn’t due to Gaza.

The Democrat’s problem isn’t just Gaza. It’s what the enabling of a genocide signals and means. If you will enable a literal ethnic cleansing, what won’t you do? You’ve literally already elevated things to full-on Hitlerian levels. If you’re willing to do that for political power, there is nothing you won’t do.

And as we’ve seen recently, Democrats have frequently thrown trans people under the bus. Even Kamala didn’t even try to refute the endless barrage of anti-trans ads thrown by the Republicans.

When asked if she supported trans care for inmates, do you know what she said? She said, “we’ll follow the law.” She was defending her past actions as California attorney general to provide trans prisoners gender-affirming healthcare. But when given the perfect opportunity to stand up for trans people everywhere, she said that she only did it because it’s what the law required of her.

Someone who actually gave a shit about trans lives would never say something like that. Instead they would say, “of fucking course prisoners get trans healthcare. Trans healthcare is medically-necessary care. It saves lives. To deny someone that care or to force them to detransition is literal torture. We sentence people to prison. We don’t sentence them to torture. We give inmates gender-affirming healthcare because to do otherwise is cruel and unusual punishment.”

That’s how you actually answer that question if you have an ounce of empathy in your soul for trans people or any understanding of the issue at all. If you make trans care some frivolous thing that can be denied to prisoners, then all trans identities are frivolous and undeserving of legal recognition or respect in any context.

And there are far worse Democrats than Kamala. Plenty of centrist Dems are willing to throw trans people under the bus if they can earn cheap political points. It turns out that if you’re willing to support a literal genocide, then persecuting a small minority group isn’t that big an ask. Once you’ve committed murder, shoplifting isn’t something you think twice about.

What evidence do you have for your claim that things are worse in Gaza under Trump than they were under the Biden/Kamala path?

Note, rhetoric is not evidence. Trump lies all the time. Biden lies all the time. Trump says he would like the US to ethnically cleanse Gaza, but he’s taken no actual steps towards that end. And Biden also tried to negotiate resettlement of the Gazans to other countries.

All I’m seeing here are vibe. You see someone who is objectively a bad human being, and you decide that they must be the worst possible person on Earth for every conceivable category. Trump can be far worse domestically than Biden while still being equivalent to him in terms of Palestine.

So again, don’t quote me rhetoric. I don’t care about Trump’s verbal diarrhea. What actual material things can you point to that are different from what Biden was allowing without any resistance? Because I think you’re mostly just going on vibes.

To me, this is an unscientific position. What actions on Gaza has the Trump regime taken that are demonstrably worse than what the Biden administration allowed? Are you forming your judgements based on faith or actual critical thought and observation?

Yes, Trump says a lot of things that are worse than those Biden said. But politicians lie all the time. Biden lied about trying to rein in Israel, and Trump so far has blustered a whole lot about mass atrocities he would like to do. But he hasn’t actually done those.

Again, forget the rhetoric. Trump is a dancing rage clown and you’re getting distracted by by the clown.

What has Trump done, MATERIALLY, in Gaza, that is any worse than what Biden did? Again, not rhetoric, actual real-world actions.

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This entire thread was started by a blue MAGAT stirring up shit.

And again. You’re blinded by partisanship. You’re no different than MAGA worshiping their God king. You see any criticism of your team, and you immediately bring out the pitchforks and start accusing people of supporting Trump.

Trump got elected because “blue no matter who” has lead the Democrats into Hell. Democrats are going to lose again in 2028, because they lack the self-reflection necessary to actually ask why they lost. Any criticism means you support Trump. We have to accept the perfection of the blue team, and any criticism means you want Trump to win.

In reality, those who want to reform the Democratic party want Trump to lose far more than people like yourself. The actions of people like you are precisely why Trump is now in office. You are responsible for Trump. MAGA is going to win again in 2028 because of people like you.

I mean, that was a literally true statement. She sacrificed her chance at the presidency because she cared more about enabling genocide than any other issue. It was what she cared more about than all other things. It was her highest campaign ambition. Everything else was secondary.

The issue on Gaza really wasn’t whether one side was better than the other. The Gaza policy of Biden, Kamala, and Trump is completely identical - 100% total support for Netanyahu.

Yes, Trump is a lot ruder about it. He’ll openly state he wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza. But Biden pushed for the same damn thing. He was just a lot quieter about it. The Biden administration supported the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

Anyone who thought Kamala would be better than Trump on Gaza was simply delusional. There was no option other than “100% support for whatever Israel wants” on the ballot in 2024.

Look. History shows that you don’t fight authoritarian right wing parties by returning the center-left party to power that enabled the fascists in the first place. It never works. You either have to burn the center-left party to the ground entirely, or reform it so deeply that it has little resemblance to the old order. The Democratic Party right now is fundamentally incapable of stopping Trumpism. It literally cannot win an election against MAGA.

You might as well be put your hopes in the Green Party. Centrist corporate Dems are three-time losers against MAGA. Only covid allowed Biden to win in 2020.

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing again and again while expecting something different. You are insane.