Rule of law is obviously sympathetic to Hamas.
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*The soldiers accused of carrying out the attack gave a press conference outside the Supreme Court on Sunday, wearing black balaclavas to avoid identification.
The group said they could not receive a fair trial because of the leaked video, and were victims of an unfair “drumhead court-martial”.*
The video of us doing horrendous shit is extremely hurtful to our defense!
While I agree they are unlikely to get a fair trial
- They don’t deserve fairness
- If this wasn’t leaked, they would go un-judged, which is the opposite end of that sliding scale they are complaining about by being outed as torturers.
I do wonder how much of it was “following orders” and how much was pure bloodlust. Neither excuses this, but the former would be indicative of bigger evil up the chain of command.
Everyone deserves a fair trial. If Israel cannot provide one then perhaps The Hague or Palestine can assist them in getting a fair trial.
A very reasonable and sensible perspective, but what if that’s still not going to be a fair trial either? We all have pretty strong opinions about torture, so I think we may need to go the extra mile in this case. If no unbiased jury can be found anywhere on planet Earth, then we’ll have to send them to Mars for a fair trial instead. It doesn’t even have to be elaborate, we can use the rules of the good old fashioned “trial by ordeal”. If you can survive on Mars, that demonstrates you were innocent all along and you can come right back home. Otherwise this is going to get dragged out for years and years while they dig up even more evidence and who knows what else may get discovered. This is really the best option for everyone. All aboard to Mars.
A “fair trial” is not about having a jury or judge from Planet Neutral.
Is it about having a defence and a jury or judge who weigh the evidence of the prosecution against the counter-evidence of the defence properly, to come to a conclusion.
I appreciate your attempt to be serious, but I’m going to continue to recommend trial by ordeal and since you brought up the possibility of having it be conducted on Planet Neutral then I’ll support that too, I admit I don’t know where it is but I’m assuming it’s going to be a really, really, really long trip, especially at sublight speeds.
Just ask in their embassy where it is located.
There was a very high profile criminal rape trial in Australia this year which was abandoned permanently after one of the jurors was found to have snuck a magazine article into court. See Lerhmann vs Higgins.
That could have been a strategy arranged by the defence. But if you think the judiciary itself corruptly arranged it then think again…
There was a civil defamation trial later where it was found the accused did indeed commit rape “on the balance of probability” (vs the more strict criminal criterion of “beyond reasonable doubt”).
So in this Israeli case the worry is now that the leak has damaged the likelihood of punishment for the perpetrators.
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This is what happens with Fascist thugs. American citizens in the US are getting shot in the back by ICE and beaten. People are dissappearing or held in detention with no camera footage to leak. Same shit, different continent.
Both equally idf terrorists like to terrorize paleatinins rape and torture them following Israel leaders policies
Everyone deserves a fair trial ffs. That’s how you prevent innocent people being thrown in jail.
The most fucked up part about this story is that hundreds of Israeli fascists literally stormed the military base the perpetrators were being imprisoned — committing domestic terrorism — in defence of the war criminals, demanding their release.
Israel is a fascist state because its founders spent the last century propagandising its citizens and the entire Jewish diaspora. It’s not a surprise the Israeli majority think Palestinians are sub-human and their extermination is justified; that will not change for generations, and only after Israel is globally shunned, militarily neutered, required to return to its original borders, and pay to rebuild all of Palestines infrastructure.
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“Showing video of our actions is blood libel”
Why does this type of bald faced deflection still work enough that they can keep doing it
because it’s geopolitically convenient
it is shaken them to the core that someone leaked it. not because someone did it.
I’ve let myself watch just one short video of atrocities committed by Israel in the last couple years and I still think about it and choke up thinking about it daily. Just one of many like it.
I am not the strongest person emotionally despite a really tough exterior, I have seen a lot of death and been through some shit. So to think about what’s been happening there all day, every day, to families and children, it’s too much to process. I have to advocate in a completely detached frame or I will be unable to form a cognitive thought.
That’s OK. You’re doing the best you can. Try to go easy on yourself.
The level of suffering people all over the world go through on a daily basis in unimaginable and we’re not capable of caring about it in depth and still functioning. Best you can do is be aware it exists and keep a wall up, only lowering it on occasions where you might be able to help. The fact that you care at all shows you’re not a MAGA monster.
The fact that you care at all shows you’re not a MAGA monster.
It’s wild because I was raised conservative and was one until I left the family compound (let that one sink in) and it was reading, learning and experiencing human life that turned me around pretty fast. I saw science being ignored, I saw heartlessness, I saw them fabricate justification to start a war, and one particular night I saw FOX news play a live feed of a US humvee entering Baghdad shred a civilian truck to pieces with a grenade launcher for no reason, and they were playing patriotic music and had American flags all over the graphics and I got really sick and never watched FOX news again.
I’m so glad you got away from that. It’s hard to not completely succumb to misanthropy sometimes and stories like yours remind me that there’s some hope.
This is just nation level virtue signaling, the Israelis do not give a single shit about the Palestinians.
And it’s just going to get worse. The Israelis are going to eradicate the Gazans and then a few years later they’re going to be crying over how guilty they feel. Not guilty enough to repatriate the Palestinians mind you, it will instead be about helping the Palestinians where they’re now refugees. Israel is liberal Elmo, the state.
Any possible relevant comment I want to make violates site policy. They are the 21st century Nazis.
Death, death, to the IDF!
That’s rather impressive for Lemmy. I’ve seen open calls for violent actions stick around and not get banned on this platform. Might have been a different instance than .world though.
I mean, lemmy.world has to follow German law and reminder: saying “Palestinian people suffer” not followed by “…because of Hamas” is legally problematic there. Still, it’s easy to misjudge one’s relative freedom of speech: I am (un)lucky to live in a country with a higher rating than the US and it doesn’t stop populists from whining when people’s rights groups challenge their false and/or racist posters.
The Nazis were German fascists who thought the Jewish population was inhibiting their destiny of creating a master race. Israel does not maintain any of these views so while they are Israeli fascists they are not Nazis.
The
NazisZionists wereGermanIsraeli fascists who thought theJewishPalestinian population was inhibiting their destiny of creating a master race. Israeldoes not maintain any ofwas founded based on these views so while they are Israeli fascists they arenotalso neoNazis.Your strikethroughs don’t mean ypur claim makes any sense. Israelis don’t believe they are destined to form a master race.
It’s not Nazi unless it’s from the Rhine basin area, otherwise it’s just sparkling genocide.
This is what you’re arguing about. The intent in calling them Nazis isn’t to insinuate they’re members of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei and no one would assume that’s the intent.
“Nazi” is common parlance as a shorthand for genocidal fascists because the Nazis are by far the most well-known genocidal fascists.
The meaningless semantic argument you’re putting forth is either a useless distraction, or you’re simply purposefully arguing in bad faith to derail the conversation.
No that claim is similarly ignorant. The Nazis are/were a specific party with a specific ideology that Israel is not perpetuating. It is factually incorrect to call them Nazis. This would be akin to labelling AOC a “communist”. AOC is not a communist nor is Israel a Nazi state.
This is of course ignoring the inherent question of racism that is always baked in to comparing the historic victims of Nazi racism to Nazis themselves.
You can hate Israel without making comparisons to the Nazis.
making comparisons
You explicitly acknowledge that they’re just making comparisons while also suggesting they’re calling Israel literal Nazis. Your trolling isn’t even internally consistent.
Pedant gonna pedant.
Nah, it’s messed up to make direct comparisons between Nazis and Jewish people, Roma people or any other ethnicity that was targeted for elimination by Nazis.
It isn’t pedantry as much as it is anti-racism.
Zionism is not a race.
A person bullied can still be a bully. A person that was horrifically abused can still be an abuser.
The Israelis in power are now ethnic cleansing Palestinians. Being Jewish or not doesn’t even factor into the equation.
Ok buddy but nothing you write changes what “Nazi” means. Nazis are German fascists. Israeli fascists are not German fascists so they cannot be Nazis.
Slightly incorrect. Anyone identifying with Nazi ideology is a Nazi. There are genuine American Neonazis for example.
The fact you call them “Neo-Nazis” makes it clear there is a difference.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd1c-_56yYGTJNit_GjUB-th5C8M4SKapOibN8vsmicakWNCA/viewform
https://zionism.wtf/ was a better “Zionist or Nazi Quote” quiz IMO but it doesn’t seem to load properly anymore.
And that is still irrelevant.
I’m guessing “shaking Israel to its core” is hyperbole.
Then you have no idea how unpopular Bibi and his genocide is…
Like, he hasn’t stopped elections for years because he’s afraid he’ll win too much, the next election him and his cronies are out of power.
They’re supposed to be every year, last was 2022 right before the attack IDF was somehow unaware of despite having the best surveillance network in the world…
Like, it’s kind of a big coincidence that happened right before Bibi was going to get voted out, and it’s been an excuse to keep him in office another 4 years
Voted out? Wasn’t he about to be removed from office to be sentenced for financial crimes just before the war started?
Yes he should have been in prison just like trump
If I understand correctly the real issue isn’t that he would d significant time but rather that Bibi could have no involvement in politics after release.
The torture video shaking Israel to its core because it leaked not because of the event happening. The leak is perceived as treason by the majority of Israel and they are fine with the tortures…
I need to leave social media, it’s hard for me to digest this. I can only muster hatred in the face of such brutality…
Thanks
All religion needs to go. That bullshit is holding humanity back so much.
Religion is just the excuse used to do bad things. Without religion the ones doing the bad things will find a new excuse.
I don’t think it’s religion so much as the combination of religion with a national identity.
It’s odd to see so many conservatives become rabid defenders of Israel since October 7th, considering there is also a pretty blatant history of antisemitism within the conservative movement in the U.S., especially the Catholic far right.
I’ve never really understood how people can just ignore all the antisemitism present during Trump’s first term. Refusing to denounce neo Nazis or a rally of young men with torches literally chanting “Jews will not replace us,” then accusing anyone that even questions what Israel has done in Gaza of being antisemitic, (seriously wtf?). But, it just kind of hit me that this has very likely been a strategic choice by the new right, along with the sudden embrace of “Christianity” by much of silicon valley.
They see what Israel has accomplished by tying religious identity to patriotism and nationality. It creates a practically impenetrable shield for any accountability. Now the right is trying to re-write the history of the U.S. as a “Christian” nation, not because they give a fuck about religion, but because they want that same shield.
We’re all supposed to believe that everything they create in their man made agenda is somehow carrying out the will of God. Therefore, anyone questioning the men “carrying out the will of God,” are also questioning God. Questioning the U.S. under their leadership means you’re attacking the U.S., questioning God’s will (since we’re now supposed to believe it’s always been a “Christian” nation), and also somehow attacking the entire religion.
They don’t give a fuck about Christ. They don’t give a fuck about Israel. They just want to insulate themselves against the rest of the world in the same model of circular logic. If they succeed, Christian Nationalism for the U.S. accomplishes what Zionism has accomplished for Israel.
While I am also an atheist like you, I don’t think that religion per se is the culprit here, just the interpretation of it by some individuals and the weaponisazation of it for sowing division and hatred. Oftentimes it is also used to control people and that’s harmful.
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disgusting… do they think they can match the usa for atrocities, we got that shit on lock. amateurs.
omfg i hate this world
