Weren’t some of the attackers on Oct 7th literal children? I remember reading reports of some of them being teenagers… and yes, the same thing applies to them. A leader like Sinwar and a child soldier should not get the same blame, that’s just silly.
This is true, but we also have to acknowledge that things aren’t simple or as black and white as they seem.
The big takeaway from WWII is that the Nazis were evil and responsible for the atrocities that they committed, not the German people. Low ranking soldiers being complacent through coercion is not the same thing as being a leader who has influence over the situation. That’s why we condemn Hitler and the Nazi leaders, and not the foot soldiers.
You’re saying it as if this is common, it’s absolutely not. Russian defections and desertions to Ukraine and vice versa are very rare, and for good reason. The chances of you successfully running away are slim compared to failing and getting killed by either Russia or Ukraine. If it was as easy as you think it is then number of causalities among troops in this war wouldn’t be in the millions.
But this also ignores how these are not comparable situations at all. The Gaza war is nothing like the Ukraine war, where are IDF conscripts supposed to defect to? It’s not like there’s anything in Gaza, they can’t leave through legal channels, and all their neighboring countries will kill them the moment they find out they’re in the IDF. It’s a difficult situation to be in.
You can choose to not join or to leave the IDF (it might cost you some jail time, but if that’s the price for keeping one’s soul, so be it). You can’t choose to not be an Arab.
I see this delusional and out of touch argument being made all over the internet, and it’s so damn annoying. These takes are always from chronically online larpers who never leave the comfort of their house, they always say shit like:
“why don’t people of Iran just overthrow the theocracy?”
“why don’t the people of North Korea just topple the Kim dynasty?”
“why don’t Russian conscripts just refuse to fight in Ukraine?”
“why don’t Israelis just refuse to be in the IDF?”
“why don’t Americans just have a revolution?”
Could it be because that reality is not that simple? It’s easy to sit there in your dark room all day dreaming about being a heroic revolutionary, but in reality? You wouldn’t do shit because you understand that the consequences are a lot harsher in reality than in your imagination. This over simplistic view of the world just boils away the complexity and nuance of humanity. Nobody is willing to risk their freedom, stability, future, or life to appear moral or have a “clean soul”. When shit gets real and you’re in the same position as all these people, you’ll end up doing the same as them. If reality was that easy then we wouldn’t have tyrannical regimes or wars or exploitation, but we do. Trying to blame a 20 year conscript for being forced to serve in the military by extremist leaders is stupid and unhelpful. They’re not making the situation better, but it’s also not their fault they’re in that position in the first place.
Personally I would be very pleased if both Putin and Khamenei were beaten to death by crooked sticks by an angry mob of pissed of civilians. That being said, I’m still not a fan of war.
Lmao imagine thinking that Iran under the regime of the mullahs has ever had any sort of media freedom
Israel is terrible, but Iran is one of the few countries in the world that tops them.
They funded, supported, and armed Hezbollah in Lebanon hat has helped turn the country into a failed state
They funded, supported, and armed the Houthis in Yemen that helped turn the country into a failed state
They funded, supported, and armed Zaynabiyoun Brigade and Fatemiyoun DivisionIraq in Syria which helped make Syria’s civil war so much worse
They funded, supported, and armed Kataib Hezb Allah, Harakat Hezb Allah al Nujaba, Badr organization, Kataib Sayyad al Shuhada, and Asaib Ahl al Haq in Iraq which turned the country into a failed state
They directly helped create the conditions that led to the rise of ISIS in both Iraq and Syria
They are openly arming and supporting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
They support and fund Saraya al Ashtar and Saraya al Mukhtar in Bahrain to help destabilize the country
They fund, support, and arm the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas in Palestine to keep the country radical and violent against Israel (funny how Israel and Iran have the same goals here)
They supported the brutal Al Assad regime in Syria and helped keep him in power
They supported and funded Hezbollah al Hejaz in Saudi Arabia to try and destabilize the country
They literally have an entire branch in their military that’s specifically created for the purpose of arming proxy groups to destabilize the region (Quds force)
They have been oppressing and killing their own people to such a comical degree that they even make other authoritarian countries uncomfortable
They Idk what planet people on this site live on, but Iran is not a force for good in any capacity. The people who support them are either evil, ignorant, or both.
Now this is a classic lemmy world salad
The intelligent thing to do is to commission studies and reach out programs to understand WHY far right parties like AfD are surging in the polls. That way you can actually understand the concerns of the people who choose to support these parties, the reasons why they’re supporting far right parties over less extreme alternatives, and what deradicalization methods are actually effective.
The dumb thing to do is to make assumptions as to why these parties are growing in popularity, and double down on them eternally regardless of how invalid or wrong those assumptions are. It’s equally as stupid to try to use force and censorship to exclude these people from public life instead of addressing the underlying issues that led to this situation in the first place. It’s like the establishment is trying to give these movements validation, martyrs, and reasons to radicalize further.
Ronald Reagan was a terrible politician, but he absolutely nailed this quote:
Perhaps you and I have lived too long with this miracle to properly be appreciative. Freedom is a fragile thing and it’s never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by way of inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. And those in world history who have known freedom and then lost it have never known it again.
Putin will never stop being a war criminal until the day he dies. If he takes over all of Ukraine, he will move to Moldova then Georgia then Latvia then Estonia and so on.
The moment this war ends, the Russian Federation will collapse. People forget but Russia has collapsed twice in the last century by doing the same things it’s doing now.
It collapsed the first time when the out of touch tyrannical Tsarist government dragged the country into a needless war (WWI) while the country was going through a crises. The country collapsed and formed the Soviet Union.
It collapsed a second time when the out of touch tyrannical communist government dragged the country into a needless war (Soviet invasion of Afghanistan) while the country was going through a crises. The country collapsed and formed the Russian Federation.
Now the same thing is happening. The country has an out touch tyrannical dictator that dragged the country into a needless war during a time of crises. Once the war is over the country will revolt and collapse once again.
The term is pointless because it is only used to describe foreign countries.
The mental gymnastics of tankies knows no bounds, you get a gold medal for your disingenuous efforts. There’s nothing that you can do to twist the reality. By every single measurable and observable metric, China is an authoritarian country by the purest definition of the word. The word “authoritarian” has a very clear, well defined, and straightforward definition that is objective and is applied universally. If you are really trying to sit here and argue that China of all places is NOT authoritarian then you’re either too dishonest or too stupid to have this discussion.
What freedom does someone working for minimum wage, barely able to afford rent, and at the mercy of their employer to even be able to do that much experience? But also it’s impossible to separate any actual freedom in the west from the hyperexploitation of the global south; you are able to buy bananas or coffee with less than 10 minutes of labor because the dictators the US keeps in place in countries that produce them keep the price of labor and resources low
Three things:
You simply cannot argue in good faith that China today, under the rule of the CCP, is not authoritarian or is less authoritarian the US or the rest of the West. Doubling down on this take means that you’re arguing against actual facts, and that’s when you start crossing into clown territory.
I’m from a country with 2% of its population in prison or homeless. To call any other country (except maybe Saudi Arabia, Iran, some gulf states, and Russia)'s rules disproportionate is laughable.
Are you really that dumb or are you actually going to argue that poverty and crime = authoritarianism? If you don’t understand what the word means then look it up and actually try to grasp the concept. I mean I literally spelled out the definition for you multiple times, but if you don’t believe me, you can look it up.
It’s like a fish accusing another fish of being wet.
If you hold up a giant sign in the heart of Seoul that says “Lee Jae-myung is a pig”, nothing will happen. If you hold up a giant sign in the heart of DC that says “Trump is a pig” nothing will happen. If you hold up a giant sign in the heart of Paris that says “Macron is a pig” nothing will happen. If you hold up a giant sign in the heart of Beijing that says “Xi is a pig” you’re going to be arrested and punished. They are not at all the same thing, this is a false equivalency.
Read the wikipedia article.
Did you read the article? Because it doesn’t all say what you claim it says, in fact, it’s details are pretty in line with I and everybody else have been saying.
the evil communists needing to control everything and sending in troops to murder everyone who tries to ask for freedom
This is exactly what the article you posted says. Adding words to make sound absurd doesn’t change what actually happened. It seems like you don’t even know what happened.
You see the same short-circuiting of logic when you try to explain to a zionist why Oct 7th happened and they just go “They did it because they’re terrorists!” over and over.
You’re using the same moronic logic as them, actually yours is worse because you seem to lack the self awareness to recognize it. What Hamas did on Oct 7th are indeed terrorist attacks that are entirely unjustifiable. With that being said, what Israel is doing now is also unjustifiable. You know what this is called? Consistency. The idiots that try to pretend that the Hamas terrorist attacks were justifiable are evil parasites, and the idiots that say that defend what Israel is doing by saying that all Gazans are terrorists are also evil parasites. Multiple things can be true at once.
In your case, the CCP killed a bunch of people in a massacre in 1989. This is an objective fact that is undeniable. Instead of condemning this event for what it was like a decent human being with the bare minimum level of moral consistency, you choose to repeatedly try to justify it like the idiots described above by repeatedly droning about “MUH CONTEXT”… without actually providing real sourced context that supports your claims. In fact, your own source shows you’re full of shit. It’s like you don’t seem to understand that baseless accusing ignorance doesn’t make something wrong or you right, nor does it invalidate the objective facts.
Those facts show that the CCP on June 4th 1989 committed an atrocity against it’s own people. You can either be a normal, condemn it, and move on or you can be a scumbag who admits that you just straight up supports the atrocity, at least you’ll be honest that way. You can’t have it both ways where you pretending you’re against the atrocity while defending it.
See, the next step is where you go “well it’s still bad cpp ebil” instead of developing any nuance or researching the political impact within China or doing further research into the various student factions and how it got to lynchings and how the other factions reacted
Ah, there it is. You did the thing again. You made another baseless accusation of ignorance while providing absolutely nothing… you know other than you either showcasing your own ignorance or dishonesty. How can someone take you seriously when you’re detached from reality? How can somebody have a meaningful discussion with someone who thinks this atrocity is justified? How can somebody give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re arguing in good faith when you’re repeatedly dishonest about basic facts? The answer is that you can’t, and you’re clearly just a troll.
The context that the reason this is promoted multiple times a year as opposed to any particular atrocities committed by western media that this can be used to justify further hostile action against a foreign nation.
Here you are at again, this is NOT context. Context is when you add relevant information to a topic in a discussion. What you’re doing here is the tu quoue fallacy. Do you understand why the fallacy you’re using is just that? Do you even understand why fallacies are considered bad to begin with? We can’t have an honest discussion if you can’t comprehend this.
If you still use the word “authoritarian”, You’re not ready to have a meaningful discussion on the event anymore than a zionist screeching about “terrorists” is capable of discussing Oct 6th.
What other word would you use to describe it? You have a very big government that tries to control every aspect of society at the expense of the freedoms and rights of its citizens, it places a lot overbearing rules that are enforced very strictly, and those who break these rules receive punishments that disproportionately exceed the crime. In this case, the CCP is a tyrannical government that ordered soldiers to kill students for the crime of peacefully protesting. That’s the textbook definition of what authoritarianism is. How am I, or anyone, supposed to take you seriously, when you can’t even admit a basic fact like the CCP is authoritarian? Even they don’t deny it.
Removed by mod
I support the suspensions. If all the other members abide by the same rules except for these ones then it makes sense reprimand them for disrupting the duties of parliament. These lawmakers were elected to be the voice of the people they represent. If they’re not using their voice to explain why they oppose the bill or what their proposed alternatives are then they’re not doing their job. Screaming and tearing up papers is just annoying and wasting everyone’s time.
What fucking context lmao? You literally provided nothing. There’s no sources, no arguments, no explanations, no points, absolutely zero context was provided. The only things you did do was make false assumptions and use fallacious reasoning to justify using logical fallacies. That’s not context, that’s trying to justify poor critical thinking skills.
>consumes nothing but propaganda
> literally make up things as you go
> people call you out on it
> everybody else is clearly brainwashed except you
Sure thing, bud
When a country does a bad thing, then that thing is indeed bad. It’s fairly straight forward. Your persecution fetish isn’t going to change the reality. You’re not a victim, neither are the communist countries who committed these atrocities. Just because you’re soulless ghoul who supports these atrocities, that doesn’t means others do as well. This might be shocking to you, but most people don’t have ideological brainrot. They call out bad things when they see them. That’s called consistency.
But that’s something you lack, because if you had consistency then you wouldn’t need to use fallacies. You would just defend your positions by their own merits, but you can’t do that so you become dishonest. Even now, instead of just taking the high road and saying “these events were atrocities and I condemn them” like a decent human being, you do the opposite by still defending them. You don’t seem to understand there is no justification for them. The fact that you are trying to justify them is direct evidence of your ignorance.
I agree with this.