• Proton VPN has hit back at Canada’s proposed Bill C-22
• The proposed legislation could require VPNs to log user metadata
• NordVPN and Windscribe have also slammed the bill
JFC were losing the internet everywhere… we’re just slaves to nation-states and corporations…
Turns out voting for conservatives has consequences.
I’m sure liberals would pass on the opportunity to have more power and control and would totally thrash the whole thing.
/s, but should be obvious
I don’t understand your comment, I thought liberals had a majority government…?
They did, this guy is just being edgy and predictable.
Blame all problems on conservatives, even when they’re not in power. Libdippers can do no wrong. /s
I mean, the Libs are doing everything I’d expect from Stephen Harper’s Bank of Canada guy and the Tory’s Bank of England guy.
Not being able to tell if the Libs or Cons are in charge just feels like more evidence of how far we’ve ratcheted to the right.
Mark Carney is 3 Conservatives in a trench coat.
Now, he is an actual Conservative, which is a hell of a lot better than a reactionary extremist that are calling themselves Conservative these days, but there’s a reason Conservative MPs have crossed the floor to join his party.
That’s just as absurd as saying Pierre Pollievre is 3 Liberals in a trench coat
Not in the slightest, no. PP doesn’t have any liberal policies (he doesn’t have any policies), Mark Carney is all conservatives policies from 20 years ago before they leaders decided to go off the deep end. Mark Carney worked for the Harper government.
Again, why do you think so many Conservative MPs have crossed the floor to join the New Conservative party?
Canada isn’t led by conservatives, though, it isn’t just conservatives.
🌍🧑🏻🚀🔫👨🏼🚀
If you’re a Canadian, please contact your MP about bill C-22, and do it now. They’re voting on this in the next few days.
Salt Typhoon, a hacking group connected to the Chinese government, used the backdoors put in place by CALEA in the US to spend months buried deep in US telecoms providers surveilling citizens. The Liberals are proposing to put in place a worse version of those exact same backdoors. Bring this up to your MP, remind them that when the Chinese (or North Koreans, Iranians, Russians, or even Americans) inevitably exploit these backdoors to do the same thing to us, it’s going to blow up in their faces.
Read the link above for more salient points about why this is bad law. Read Open Media’s articles on it (https://openmedia.org/press/item/ottawa-repackages-its-surveillance-backdoor-in-bill-c-22). Bring up these points to your MP. Email them. Phone and demand to speak to them. Make a stink about this.
If nothing else, send the form letter from Open Media (the other options are better, but something is better than nothing); https://action.openmedia.org/page/188754/action/1#main-content
They already tried to pass this law once and it failed. Yes, they have a majority now, but it is a very slim majority. If a few MPs defect this bill will die.
My MP told me to fuck off and that it was a good thing.
I live in Quebec, my MP masturbates to videos of Donald Trump and times his nut for when Trump makes fun of the handicapped journalist.
I’m not sure what you feel like you’re adding with this reply.
Well done for making the effort. Thank you, and we all appreciate it.
But what do you want other people to take from this? Are you trying to discourage other people from taking action? Because you encountered resistance other people shouldn’t try at all, even though they might end up speaking to someone more receptive?
Even your MP may end up changing their mind if enough people speak up. The goal is not to single-handedly sway their opinion, it’s to add your voice to a growing chorus. You’re joining a movement, not fighting a solo battle.
Pretty sure my MP blocked me because their office never respond to my inquiries.
Phone their office, demand to know why you haven’t heard back from them. Make them search through their emails and pull up every message you ever sent. Make them uncomfortable. Be a problem.
What is a reasonable period of time to give them to respond to an email? They could be absolutely inundated with complaints, and it would be unreasonable to expect them to move particularly fast.
Instead of theorizing, just call and ask why they haven’t responded. If the answer is “Because we’re snowed under”, well, there you go. And now they know that you really give a shit because you’re badgering them for a response. They get a lot of form letters but very few people follow up. That immediately ups the seriousness in their minds.
Be unreasonable if you have to be. I don’t mean impolite. Be nice to the human being on the other end of the line. But be demanding. Your MP works for you. Make them work.
Phone their office, demand to know why you haven’t heard back from them. Make them search through their emails and pull up every message you ever sent. Make them uncomfortable. Be a problem.
The part of me that is pessimistic (that part seems to be growing these days…) thinks they would just hang up on you and if you call them back enough times they’ll call the police on you to report you for harassment.
Not to discourage people, but it’s just frustrating.
You’re assuming a bad outcome and then acting as if it’s a guaranteed outcome. This is maladaptive behavior under any circumstances.
Please actually talk to a therapist about this if you can. I guarantee this behaviour pattern is occurring in other places in your life, and it’s not healthy.
Is it okay to assume a bad outcome after it has happened? What about while it’s happening?
Please psychoanalyze me using only a couple sentences, that will definitely help.
The truth is, we obviously don’t know for sure what will happen, but it’s also not likely to be surprising if it doesn’t go our way. It’s the most likely outcome and pretending otherwise is disingenuous. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fight, though.
I’m certainly not surprised anymore with all the shit I’ve seen over the years and how the enshitification seems to be unavoidable these days. People, companies, etc are not held accountable and it shows. It’d be nearly impossible to not become jaded after enough things go wrong.
So, you’re saying that an MP has filed a police report against you for harassment?
Ah, that’s all you took away from all I said. Very cool, I can see you’re clearly conversing in good faith.
I like how you throw in ‘even the Americans’ with the spying groups. We definitely spy in all our allies. And in return we encourage our allies to spy on us. It is a very calculated political game where we (all the allied countries) pass legislation and safeguards in our respective home countries and declare our citizens free of authoritarian government surveillance, but then work with the other countries spy agencies to do it for us. We intentionally put in the backdoors in our peoples networks and hand the keys to our partners just so we can say ‘well I wasn’t spying on you. That would be illegal!’ But in the end it is effectively the same. If the allied government finds anything of interest they just send a notification over. We each have boundaries that we respect in spying on each other’s people too. It is almost a formallity by this point.
And all of that would be fine if they were still acting like an ally.
Why is our liberal government a fuckass conservative government?
Both sides are equally authoritarian once in control.
That is not today’s problem. The Brian Mulroney conservatives don’t have a home in the party of extemeists that is lead by pp, or Erin O’Toole, or Andrew Scheer. Now the Liberals are right of center and lean strongly into neo-lib ideology. Justin Trudeau was a neo-lib hiding under the veneer of decent social policy. Jagmeet Singh was also a neo-lib. Our progressive politicians suck right now.
Obvious answer is because they are not liberal, calling yourself liberal just works better in elections. After the elections they do what they were paid for.
Also Proton: “metadata logging does not count as logging, and handing our logs, I mean non existent logs that only contains totally useless metadata, over to the Swiss government is fine because its the Swiss law”
I worked for a VPN company a decade ago that advertised no logging. It was all BS. They absolutely logged. Maybe they only kept the logs for something like 48 hours, but I’m pretty sure all VPNs have some kind of logging going on. Anyway, a VPN by itself does not give you any privacy. Websites have a billion ways to fingerprint you, and they don’t even need cookies to do it.
privacy implies vpn (or some mix-net), but not the opposite… so if you want privacy, you need a vpn, but a vpn by itself doesn’t give you privacy
It’s a small step out of many. And there’s enough steps now that an average person is pretty much never going to have it, unfortunately. But there is more and less exposed. There’s untraceable, and there’s traceable with more effort than anyone will likely bother. Considering countries like russia have tried and failed to block VPNs, they’re certainly worth something.
I’d argue that VPNs remain one of the highest return-on-investment (time and money) steps towards online security, as many gaps as they do have in the big picture.
It’s not going to make you untraceable. But it’ll make you difficult enough to trace that nobody’s gonna put forth the effort to target you specifically unless you’ve attracted like, nation-state attention. (Targeting you as a member of some demographic a la advertisers, yeah not much effect).
Pretty sure even a VPN does nothing if you’re on a cellphone as well isn’t it?
Like all cellphones carry a unique identifier, that’s how, say, reddit can keep you banned even if you start a new account under new email and a vpn.
I don’t think Reddit would have that. They likely just use your browser fingerprint. Check this out: https://amiunique.org/fingerprint
Between just my uncommon device, my languages spoken, and rough location (timezone), I’m actually crazy identifiable, yikes.
Well I’m not sure how else they keep you banned. I was fine on my desktop under a new account and email but even with a VPN and fresh accounts it banned me, sometimes within seconds on my cell phone. Got a new phone like a year later and could get an account (obv)
Based on what happened with their e-mail, I imagine if the courts mandated IP logging for VPNs, Proton would still advertise their no-logs policy until they get caught out in a scandal and then silently update their marketing material & privacy policy afterwards. lol
ProtonMail 2018:
Now, Swiss courts have never tried to force us to log IPs, and the law is not completely clearly if we have to comply or not. If we got such a request, we would probably fight it just to test this out.
Did they ever end up fighting anything out? lol
I doubt they did - they only speak up for the fictional customer, meanwhile silently complying to whatever government requests user data from them.
They still don‘t log your IP and advocate to not even give them your data, though. If you give them your credit card number and then use their services to sell illegal substances and if authorities of your country then find your e-mail address and contact Proton about it then their hands are pretty much tied. If you use one of their offered anonymous ways to pay for their services then there is nothing they can give authorities. Ultimately it‘s your job to take care of your identity and Proton offers ways to protect it.
Oh look Proton is trying to score some PR bullshit when they will comply with the law just like they comply with the laws in their country. They are a greedy corporation who sells security theatre.
Firstly Proton is a non-profit.
Secondly security and privacy are two different things (albeit their connected).
Thirdly no company, for-profit or otherwise, is going to break the law for you.
There’s following the law, and then there’s giving away data to government agency just because they asked nicely, and could MAYBE get a warrant in the future. It is the equivalent of letting police into your house without a warrant, because maybe they’ll get one.
You produmb defenders can’t even get basic facts correct.
“Proton uses a unique hybrid model. The services are provided by a for-profit Swiss corporation called Proton AG with a primary shareholder that is non-profit.”
So dumb it hurts, but by all means keep giving them your money. I heard they just doubled their price. Twice the price for the same stupidity.
You call people dumb then seem to not realize your undermining your own point…
Oh don’t worry, I did this to Microsoft losers long ago, then Facebook, Google, Tesla, etc.
Talking shit about garbage services and companies is just a hobby of mine. Why so many bootlickers come scurrying out though has always been a surprise to me.
Maybe the point is, what is your alternative? Proton is still much more privacy focused than anything else that provides the same services.
Setting up your own domain isn’t for everyone. Tuta has less functionality and doesn’t offer things like cloud storage or VPN.
Yes they can do better, but calling it garbage is not helpful either.
People who disagree with you are not automatically boot lickers. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. As are you, even though I disagree with you.
The alternative is not paying for security theatre from a garbage company. Pretending Proton is the only option is beyond silly. I won’t list off alternatives because you can find them easily yourself if you cared to.
You do hit on the best course of action though which is self hosting. I will admit I fought setting up an email server in the past and it was very difficult, but that is not the case anymore with docker and other solutions. Obviously this is not for everyone and that’s why it is important to help out your fellow man.
Proton has lied repeatedly, back pedal repeatedly and constantly blames the end user for their shitty security practices. The leaders, in particular Andy Yen, are total douche canoes. I will never forget him saying that Trumplethinkskin was going to break up Google. That shit aged like fine milk.
I also suspect Proton is actually a honey trap for criminals. This corporations leaves a bad taste in my mouth with their fascist attempts to alter government policy with stupid threats like they will leave the country. Absolute garbage that they never intended to follow through on and just trying to score PR points for their security theater nonsense.
People who put companies like Proton on a pedestal are impossibly dumb. Giving a corporation your hard earned money for security has got to be one of the stupidest maneuvers in the digital world.
I am sorry, but people who defend corporations are the definition of bootlickers.
What alternatives to big tech that provide the same (or, most of the same, I’m not trying to be an asshole here) services are there? I’m not pretending, nor am I silly. I’m not trying to personally attack you, so please don’t do it to me.
I tried to find alternatives and I disliked Yen’s comments a lot too, but I still decided on Proton for a move away from Microsoft and towards Europe. In this case perfect is the enemy of good, and that is what you’re doing here. It’s not very helpful.
You also can’t expect normal consumers with busy lives who don’t work a tech job to set up a private domain. They can’t or won’t invest the time to do it themselves and not everyone can be expected to go around asking their friends and colleagues if they might have a tech-savvy cousin to set it up.
And how is not acknowledging it is garbage (I acknowledged it’s not perfect either, but it is good) putting it on a pedestal? I’m getting the feeling this is mostly an emotional response from you rather than a rational one.
Kinda have to comply with laws mate
Yes, that is why them advertising as a privacy respecting company in a country whose laws force them to respect privacy has always been dumb. Literally every email provider has to follow the same law there hence their security theatre to sell overpriced access to email and their ever growing walled garden.
They don’t have access to your email… They never did. They have some unencrypted metadata and your encrypted mail
Trust me it is bad. I guess perhaps you could say it is a problem with the system, but then you have to admit the service that shall not be named is nothing special.
They are not a Canadian company though, so they don’t have to comply with Canadian laws.
If they want to operate in canada they do
I just paid $80 for one year of proton. 2 years ago I paid $40 for 2 years.
Use information however you will.
I’m guessing you had a one time deal 2 years ago?
Perhaps. It was two years ago. I honestly don’t remember.
That would have been a one time deal 2 years ago.
Shit I pay $178 something for 2 years for one person but I get the full suite
Ah yes, Proton, infamous for being the knee and ratting out activists to the authorities, pretends it has any semblance of a spine left.
every single one of those cases was the activist fucking up basic opsec not proton. They are open about the metadata stored and that they can be forced to comply by court order.
Maybe those activists should‘ve chosen anonymity over convenience. Proton offers ways to protect yourself. They just take a little bit of effort.
Some Proton Employee really contacted me here on lemmy to basically say that Proton could never do anything malicious, because they are owned by a non profit. Then how the heck can OpenAI be this scummy when they are also owned by a non profit? (See my Comment History)
Protons PR Team is so scummy. They spread misinformation about themselves in public forums and pay Content Creators to say incorrect things about online privacy to sell products to customers that don’t need those products.They’ll say anything just to distract their users away from them being caught red handed in the act of giving away their data to the governments all around the world.
Classic business marketing.
so proton is now a movement.
Also they scammed their way (liberals) to a majority by absorbing resigning NDP members and THEN they pushed this bullshit. They’re anti democratic and aligned with the pedo elite in reducing our lives to nothing since 2020. Cant wait for the revolution to start and ill be among those hanging these bastards by the neck. Idgaf about a list, hi SCRS agent.
